“There would be no American musicals without Jews” says Sir Nicholas Hytner

Sir Nicholas Hytner is at lunch and apologises for any background noise. Hopeful to hear strains of Luck Be A Lady, the only sound is the clanging  of cutlery. Sir Nicholas can’t quite recall when he first saw the 1955 film of Guys & Dolls, but never regarded it as competition for his new revival of the musical. “It’s a famously bad film, even though it’s beloved,” he says, dismissing a family favourite and Marlon Brando in a single breath.          But what about Frank Sinatra?

“He was miscast and should have played Sky Masterson instead of Brando. Brando should not have been in it. He couldn’t sing, so they cut songs and Sinatra wanted more. They hated each other.”

With nothing ‘nicely-nicely’ to say about the “clunky” film, Nicholas explains that the only challenge for his stage revival was his vivid memory
of Richard Eyre’s stunning 1982 production with Bob Hoskins and Julia McKenzie at the Royal National Theatre, which Nicholas later led for12 years as artistic director. If anyone was capable of setting a new benchmark with Frank Loesser’s musical, it’s the man acclaimed in London and on Broadway for his musicals and plays.

Too many awards to list, Nicholas’ knighthood attests to his ‘services to drama’. He is also a triple threat because he directs films too, and took Sir Alan Bennett’s The Madness of King George, The History Boys and The Lady in the Van from stage to screen. Cameron Mackintosh hired him to direct Miss Saigon, so he didn’t need the prayers of Sister Sarah Brown. And any doubts he expressed in our chat were forgotten when the first night reviews dropped on 4 March.

‘Staggering achievement‘ (Time Out), ‘A solid-gold knockout’ (Variety), ‘An extravaganza that explodes every which way’ (Daily Telegraph).There are so many rapturous reviews that picking the best for the poster won’t be easy. It wasn’t easy for Nicholas either and by final run-through, he was exhausted.

“This is the first musical I’ve done since Rodgers’ and Hammerstein’s Carousel, and that was one of my absolute favourite things I ever did.I’ve always loved musicals but, my goodness, directing them takes it out of you.” Yet he couldn’t resist Guys & Dolls? “Because it is indisputably one of the top three musicals ever. And after doing Julius Caesar and                        A Midsummer Night’s Dream at The Bridge in the immersive format, instead of another Shakespeare, I thought, ‘Let’s do a musical’.”

Nicholas’ ‘immersive format’ requires the removal of 400 seats from the theatre he founded with partner Nick Starr, in order to create space for a standing audience to follow the action. They effectively promenade as part of the show, with the rest of the 650 audience seated.

“In Julius Caesar, the audience were the Roman mob and they loved it,”says Nicholas. “You have to treat them courteously and seriously, then they very much become part of the event.” What was Rome’s 44 BC Appian
Way at The Bridge is now Broadway 1950 for Guys & Dolls, and those with promenade tickets are on 52nd Street, amid pretzel stands and hotdog sellers, until the overture starts. Then ushers dressed as NYC cops direct them between rising and falling platforms on which the actors perform.

Andrew Richardson (Sky Masterson), Celinde Schoenmaker (Sarah Brown) Marisha Wallace (Miss Adelaide) and Daniel Mays as Nathan Detroit are within touching distance and in the rousing finale dance with you. Why wait at the stage door for Cedric Neal (Nicely-Nicely), when you can high five him after Sit Down, You’re Rockin the Boat?

Few directors would consider such radical staging or deliver it so seamlessly, but Nicholas, 66, is a veteran who started creating plays in his toy theatre as a child. Growing up in Didsbury, south Manchester, the eldest of four, he was raised in a “typical Jewish cultured family”, went to Manchester Grammar School then Cambridge and, though his early ambition was to be an actor, “I was savvy enough to discover my acting was poor,” he admits. A realisation that has benefited the actors he’s directed ever since.

Delving into the Damon Runyon stories that Abe Burrows turned into the book for Guys & Dolls, Nicholas was most thrilled about the Jewish characters within the pages. They certainly grabbed the Jewish corps of producer Cy Feuer, writer Abe Burrows and composer-lyricists Frank Loesser and George Kaufman who directed the first production in 1950.

“In the Runyon stories, when bad guys appear they always come from Brooklyn, or further afield in Chicago,” informs Nicholas. “In the middle of Manhattan, it’s small-time Jewish gamblers. And they are really Jewish. They eat gefilte fish and are called things like Izzy Cheesecake. There’s an eating competition, which is won by Violette Schlumberger. The humour is so Jewish and you realise, as I have, when you go to New York, everybody’s Jewish. Even the people who aren’t Jewish are Jewish. They unaffectedly drop Yiddish into their conversation without even knowing it.

“You’re also dealing with a totally Jewish art form, because the American musical – putting Cole Porter to one side– is basically Jews and African Americans. There would be no American musicals without Jews and no American popular music without African Americans.” We chat a while about other sublime Jewish musical composers, including the late Marvin Hamlisch – “an adorable bear of a man” – with whom Nicholas worked on the musical Sweet Smell of Success. Sadly it did not get the same gushing reviews as his Guys & Dolls.

“It has a wonderful score and I would absolutely accept being told, ‘the reason it was a flop was YOU!’ I might have screwed it up. But it was the wrong time and, at some point, a young director will rediscover that
show and it will be the right time.”

The reviews prove it’s the right time for the theatre knight and for his choreographer, Dame Arlene Phillips who, at the significant age
of 80 can still leap and twirl, which Nicholas envies. “I wish could dance. But her age? I know it’s true, I just don’t believe it,” he jokes
about the former Strictly judge, who choreographed his past two immersive Shakespeares and Alan Bennett’s play Allelujah! which is now a film.

“She’s also from the same part of Prestwich as both my parents and I’ve heard her talk about the local butcher with my mother.” So Jewish! And Sir Nicholas doesn’t shy away from it. Starting off on a dubious footing with the decrying of the 1955 film, he ends our chat declaring it was a pleasure, which left only one more question. “Are you strudel or cheesecake?” He pauses. “I’m cheesecake,” he says with a wink. For clarity see the show. And sample that cheesecake. According to Sir Nicholas: “It’s better than Mindy’s.”

Footnote: Damon Runyon was a big fan of the cheesecake served at Lindy’s deli on the corner of Broadway and 51st. But when he wrote about it in his books, he changed the name to Mindy’s. It remained a contentious issue for owner Leo ‘Lindy’ Lindemann.

For tickets: bridgetheatre.co.uk

Guys and Dolls opening night 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axDmU04t3a8